| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 MsKittyFantastico |
Episode Discussion: Help |
Lead | |
|
Posts: 1009 (10/14/02 19:55:49) |
And here we go again.
Warn for spoilers and put up your discussion. Remember if you want to vent.. go to Ready, Steady, Vent. Say what you think, but be respectful. Have fun! Bren |
||
|
Little Willow |
Re: Episode Discussion - Help | ||
|
Posts: 17692 (10/14/02 21:19:38) Miss Kitty Fantastico |
Thank you, Bren! You beat me to it.
*sniffle* I'm so proud...  For those wondering about Cassie . . . Not an episode spoiler, but a casting spoiler . . . s p o i l e r s p a c e The girl: Azura Skye portrays Cassie in "Help," tomorrow night's episode of BtVS. The site: www.cassienewton.com The reaction: Very interesting site. It is sure to exceed its bandwidth when the episode airs tomorrow. Also sure to freak people out in the meantime who think that she is real. The anticipation: I'm prepared for a very scary, all-too-real episode . . . I don't know created the site. I'm guessing that someone will tell us in a post or interview after the episode airs. |
||
|
Drop19 |
Re: Episode Discussion - Help | ||
|
Posts: 2083 (10/14/02 21:42:00) |
s
p o i l e r s RRK hits another one out of the park with "Help." It was great to see Buffy dealing with the pressures of her new job and being confronted with students who either didn't want her help or didn't truly need it. One of the hardest parts of any job involving social responsibility is learning to distance yourself from your clients/patients/counselees/students without becoming cold. Many of those brief scenes rang very true and showed just a few of the problems a high school counselor would be facing on a daily basis. I'm glad that we'll get to see Buffy dealing with these issues while also dealing with monsters and the Hellmouth. Cassie was an interesting character that took a somewhat worn out theme, someone seeing their own death, and made it work. Big credit to RRK and Azura Skye for making it work so well. It's safe to say that many of us knew (or even were) someone like Cassie back in school and the character really came across well here. She was one of the most well-developed "one-off" characters from any season and it's a shame she won't be sticking around. She would've made an interesting character should the Newbie Gang become a reality. Thanks for posting that link LW, I had no thought to even search the web after the episode despite a big hunkin clue and all. "I googled her."  Seeing the "real" Cassie page has given the episode an extra dimension that makes it feel too real. There are a lot of pages out there like this, and it again drives home the idea that there are a lot of people in the world who feel a lot like Cassie. And by that I mean outcasts, not precogs. Well, maybe those too.  Not a whole lot from Xander or Willow this episode outside of the gravesite scene that was very well done. Alyson did a great job of underplaying here and gave the scene a really subtle sadness and beauty. Call me a big wimp, but I was sniffling. Not a lot of development on the Crazy Spike front except for the predicition from Cassie. "She'll tell you...someday she'll tell you." The obvious answer is that Buffy will say she loves Spike, but it almost seems a bit too straightforward and obvious. Four or five months ago this is exactly what Spike would've been dying to hear, but now I'm not so sure. For that matter was Cassie addressing Spike or William? There are other women such as Halfrek or Drusilla that could be possible here also, but chances are it's probably in reference to Buffy. Maybe it's just that she forgives him or recognizes that there is a man as well as a monster. Chances are we won't find out for another 16 weeks or so knowing ME. This episode raised a truly important question: if there is nothing you can do to change someone's fate does that mean you should not try? For the entire episode we see Buffy absolutely refusing to accept Cassie's fate. Was this all in vain or did Buffy do some amount of good in trying to help? The idiot cult was stopped and the demon they raised was destroyed. Cassie and Dawn seemed to bond for those last few days even if their friendship was a result of subterfuge. That kid from Home Improvement is really good at playing high school punk. Between this ep and Boston Public he's done a really good job with it. "When a chicken in this neighborhood gets angry it *will* chase you down."
|
||
|
Ange |
videos and caps | ||
|
Posts: 7 (10/15/02 01:47:31) |
|
||
|
Ange |
caps | ||
|
Posts: 7 (10/15/02 07:53:40) |
|
||
|
nikeoli |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 54 (10/15/02 09:13:20) |
I am so confused about this cassie site thing.... she's real? is the site done by the buffy peeps??? ah confuddlement!
|
||
|
NeitherHereNorThere |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 485 (10/15/02 13:38:53) |
Well, it was a nice surprise to see that this epsidode would be on yesterday instead of having to wait until Saturday to see it.
This was a very well done episode, well-written, well-acted. Cassie was an interesting character, and I was sad to see her go so soon. Especially considering the bonding her and Dawn seemed to have done. Buffy seems to be taking on her role as a counseller quite nicely, and it's an interesting twist and bit of character growth for her. Loved the part with Dawn in Buffy's little office. The Willow at Tara's grave scene was short but sweet, and yep, the tears really came for me then. Alyson played it really well, without it being over or under-done. And one great quote of Cassie's that's been in my head all day : "I want to see my cousins grow up, 'cause they're really mean and I think they're gonna be fat." ~Jane~
|
||
|
tasha |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 3119 (10/15/02 13:43:00) |
Nikeoli: No..she's not real.
RRK, Jane Espenson, Drew and Drew dropped the link in the Bronzebeta yesterday "suggesting" people might want to take a look before the episode aired... As to who the site is done by...presumably a UPN-er or maybe one of ME? Who knows Like LW said, maybe we'll find out...As for what I thought of the ep - thumbs up for RRK! THhis season = so far so damn good!  More tomorrow maybe. |
||
|
TheDoby |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 1974 (10/15/02 17:04:50) |
dito it. liked ep very very much. Azura Skye was magnificent. really evil to make her an outstanding character for an ep, that yewd like to have around and than see her die.
startin to love dawn more and more. its good that they let her character progress from shinny whinny to kick ass dawn who gets many funny lines and also scooby action. grave scene was sad. and went along perfectly with the ep. like in, sometimes there is nothing yew can dew about someone dying. i am so gonna rewatch this one. and go azura, go! hope she will be seen on tv in the future. she was really good. drop: aaaaaaaah! home improvement! i was all "where the hell dew i know him from???" funny....him as evil. ok....he was already evil in home improvement...we memba how they tortured lil mark, rite ? and yeah, the "yew cant dew anything at all" statement is controversial, considered yew apply it to those kids in high skewl, that are suicidal. but i think they absolutely have a point. sometimes yew can dew something, like buffy tried to. and than sometimes, there is not a thing that could have made difference. even if yew are a slayer..... Previously......on Doby the Futon Slacker... |
||
|
xellos12385 |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 122 (10/15/02 17:28:29) |
***spoilers***
* * * * * * * Really liked tonight's episode! I thought Cassie was a cool character and it's a shame she had to die at the end. Heh it was a nice trip down memory lane seeing the "kid" from Home Improvement again. And, of course, the scene where Willow goes to Tara's grave was very special. I know I have heard rumors of Amber coming back sometime in the season, but at least for now, it was good to have some kindof closure. Plus it also made it even more real that Tara was gone, seeing her grave. To be honest, even after all the events of last season, I was still in somewhat disbelief at seeing the grave. Well anyway, before I start to wander into the "Ready, Steady, Vent!" category, I do have one question: what does the three rocks (I think that's what they were?) that Willow puts on Tara's tombstone represent? Is it something from an episode past that I just missed or is it some sort of Wiccan ritual or something? |
||
|
TL983 |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 1264 (10/15/02 18:04:15) |
...............Spoliers to those on the left coast ..............
- I Thought tonights episode was quite good. - Liked the opening scene. After Buffy and Xander got out of the caskets i was waiting for Willow but instead got dawn. It felt weird. Dawn was funny though. " I think this thing has a fricken child lock on it" - The Xander/Willow walking scene. I was like "oh look they are walking in the park how nice" and then I was like "oh wait a second they're in the cemetary" which then led to "Willow's going to Tara's Grave" and my thought ended with "Oh my, that was one of the sadest Willow scenes ever i think."  The emotion Alyson can pour into her character always amazes me.- I enjoyed the "Cassie" character. I wouldn't have minded seeing her in future episodes as one of Dawn's friends. - RRK did a great job on this one. well im gonna wrap it up and probably go watch this epi again. ~*~Tamara~*~ p.s. The custom of placing rocks dates back to biblical times, when people put piles of stones on graves to mark the grave and to protect it from wild animals. Nowadays it signifies that somebody has been there. (A stone is more durable than flowers.) |
||
|
Unregistered(d) |
The rocks | ||
|
Posts: 0 (10/15/02 18:12:35) |
Hi, xellos12385
Hey, everyone The rocks are a Jewish tradition. I don't know what the rock represents in Jewish symbolism but this is what they do when they visit their dead: they place rocks instead on flowers on their graves. Love to all Danielle |
||
|
russ |
Re: The rocks | ||
|
Posts: 182 (10/15/02 19:39:17) |
Thanks to Tamara & Danielle for explaining the significance of the rocks. I too was thinking some sort of Wiccan custom. Interesting to see Willow going back to her roots.
I was not completely satisfied with the graveyard scene. I hope this is not meant to be closure, as in we never hear of Tara again. I was, however, very moved by it. (yes, there were tears). Aly conveyed a huge amount of emotion with a few words, tone of voice, facial expression. My respect for her acting ability, and my love for the character, grows each time I see her. Hey, how about mature, supportive, insightful Xander? For the most part I've been pleasantly surprised with him this year. He's behaving this year the way he should have last year; too bad it's too late for his relationship with Anya. The hammer & nail analogy does a good job of illustrating Willow's magick dilemma. If you're going to have a prophet, might as well name her Cassandra. I think the little hints she gave to Spike & Buffy are going to be coming up as the season continues. Other points have been well covered, especially by Drop; no need to repeat. Time to pack it in before I fall asleep on my desk. Russ |
||
|
Dark Wyldchilde |
Re: The rocks | ||
|
Posts: 1722 (10/15/02 20:12:20) Hush Puppy |
As you may have guessed I did not like this show. The first reason would be because I had enough of the hopelessness back in season 6.
Season 6 relied heavily on what I call the plotline railroad that had events go to hell regardless of the characters actions, and they boarded it again for this episode. If Buffy had failed somehow, or the bad guys had done their thing a little too soon and all Buffy could do is take them down... but nope. It really was hopeless, and hopeless has been done WAY too often. Perhaps this would have worked better laster in the season, but here and now it just felt like an emotional rehash ala season 6. My points on Willow and Tara were made last week, but I will restate them here. Willow... doesn't anyone keep motive in mind? I mean they can do it when hunting demons. So why can't they do it when talking about Willow's dark side? She had motive, but inspite of all their talking about maigck NOT being addictive (any more) it seems to be handled like she's afraid of falling off the wagon. Tara... I got closure, and that's nice. I still didn't get any repsonses from anyone but Willow. Which lends credence to Russ' talk of the lesbians friend's being glad the situation is resolved with the death of the girlfriend... hell Xander puffed up when Willow mentioned love poetry soon after having taken her to the grave of her lover. We have closure, but until I see someone BESIDES Willow miss Tara I'm goign to keep getting angrier. |
||
|
PhrogePheyr |
Re: The rocks | ||
|
Posts: 187 (10/15/02 21:51:52) |
Xander puffed up, that's for certain... but ya gotta love the response he got: "I'm over you, sweetie." along with what I detected to be a slight roll of the eyes...
I'm sorry... but that's gonna become a new classic for me... ---Phrogie "Hello... gay now." |
||
|
Little Willow |
Re: caps | ||
|
Posts: 17692 (10/15/02 22:03:01) Miss Kitty Fantastico |
Oh, and I should probably say it for those of you wondering:
I liked the episode. I liked the episode a _great_ deal. Sorry that I'm not more detailed at this time. My head is throbbing, my stomach is unhappy and I still have an episode summary to write before I barely sleep and then go to my retail job. Kudos to Rebecca, kudos to Azura, kudos to the rocks. Little Willow |
||
|
ssc |
cassienewton.com | ||
|
Posts: 74 (10/15/02 22:44:30) |
First, good vibes to Little Willow and her sad stomach.
 FYI, here's the whois info on cassienewton.com (yes, I am a geek! ):Domain Name.......... cassienewton.com Creation Date........ 2002-09-14 Registration Date.... 2002-09-14 Expiry Date.......... 2003-09-14 Organisation Name.... Cassie Newton Organisation Address. 13 Shadow Lane Organisation Address. Organisation Address. Sunnydale Organisation Address. 94086 Organisation Address. CA Organisation Address. UNITED STATES Admin Name........... Cassie Newton Admin Address........ 13 Shadow Lane Admin Address........ Admin Address........ Sunnydale Admin Address........ 94086 Admin Address........ CA Admin Address........ UNITED STATES Admin Email.......... newcassie@yahoo.com Admin Phone.......... 666-442-8363 Admin Fax............ Tech Name............ YahooDomains Techcontact Tech Address......... 701 First Ave. Tech Address......... Tech Address......... Sunnyvale Tech Address......... 94089 Tech Address......... CA Tech Address......... UNITED STATES Tech Email........... domain.tech@YAHOO-INC.COM Tech Phone........... +1.6198813096 Tech Fax............. Name Server.......... ns8.san.yahoo.com Name Server.......... ns9.san.yahoo.com It's kind of cute. -Sha Sha, back after a long, long hiatus. |
||
|
tasha |
Re: cassienewton.com | ||
|
Posts: 3119 (10/16/02 01:37:23) |
I was also weirded out by Dawn being the last one out of the coffins in the intro. I missed a lot of the dialog in that scene because I was sitting there going "Where's Willow? Why isn't Willow there?!"
Loved Buffy's councillor day...funny. Azura Skye was brilliant. I don't think anyone could have played Cassie the way she did. Willow graveyard scene. Willow made me cry teevee tears in under 5 seconds. That's impressive. I think that scene was perfect. It didn't drag the whole episode down to much, but gave enough to remind you and make you sniffle. The website idea was a really good one. It's just a pity that the website I saw prior to the show looked nothing like the one Willow saw on her mac browser... I loved (loved in a storyline kinda way) that Cassie died anyway...although I did think we'd covered the "you can't always help" idea before. But as I did enjoy this episode, I'll let that slide *G* Quote: I honestly do not understand how you can possibly read in some anti-lesbian sentiment into all this. I think you're clutching at straws to find something negative on that one, imho. As for Xander puffing up - she spoke about being angsty when she was Cassie's age...IE - in high school. Who did Willow love but not have love returned in high school (with the exception of the affair) - XANDER. I thought that line was adorable and gave a nod to events passed. We have a memory, so should the show. Oh..work calls. That is all. ++"Confused, maybe - never scared."++"...kittens! Which, by the way, is stupid currency" |
||
|
russ |
Re: The rocks | ||
|
Posts: 182 (10/16/02 02:26:50) |
DW, I take a slightly different view of the hopelessness angle. Last year, the situation was hopeless because of the characters' actions. They continually made wrong, self-destructive choices that fuelled that "plotline railroad" you spoke of.
This time it was no one's fault. Dawn made the point that Cassie's heart killed her, that Buffy has nothing to feel guilty about, she did everything she could. There were good results from this: cult busted & demon destroyed before anyone else got hurt. As Dawn said, she & Cassie got to be friends for a week. The point of this is that a counsellor or other helping professional can't save everyone. This is tough for Buffy to accept; as a new counsellor she takes failure personally. Part of her growing in her new profession will be the acceptance of her limitations. Re puffed-up Xander: the tone of that scene was a little lighter, with Willow herself making humourous comments about her teen-aged angst. Like Phrogie says, the put-down line is a classic. There is still a major disconnect between Dawn & Willow. At no time did the two interact. Even in the last scene on the couch where they were sitting side by side; the body language had Dawn keeping maximum distance from Willow, and talking past her to Buffy. It makes sense that Dawn will find it hard to forgive Willow; she was the most traumatized by DMW, and has less maturity to help her deal. The magick... Willow, and therefore her friends, fears that she will be unable to control it. She spent her time in England learning control, but the "mutual no-see-ums" showed her she still has a ways to go. It's natural she should worry about what will happen when she has to use the magick in a crisis. Tara ... I'm glad Willow got to grieve on-screen, and took us to the grave with her. It sure would be nice to think that some of the other characters also grieve. I know time has passed and they've moved on, but really I would think that someone would care enough to visit the grave or mention Tara's existence. LW: hope you're feeling better today. Going to work with a sick tummy is no fun at all. Russ |
||
|
ambercatsmom |
Wowza | ||
|
Posts: 8140 (10/16/02 04:25:30) Special Effects |
I'm still blown away by the episode.
Azure as always is brilliant. Willow at Tara's grave, sigh. I'm still choked up. Loved Dawn, the last one out of the casket. Child locks in a coffin, great line  The young man that kept asking Cassie out so reminded me of a young Xander. Well sort of. Is it me or is Dawn beginning to resemble Tara? In manner. |
||
|
Little Willow |
Re: Wowza | ||
|
Posts: 17692 (10/16/02 05:38:30) Miss Kitty Fantastico |
The grave scene was incredibly sad. It was a very nice tribute. The line itself was short, and had it just been that, I would have been wanting more. But upon seeing it, you see the rocks (tribute), the letter tracing (name), the sitting then leaning in then getting all choked up and it really does feel "full."
I do NOT feel as if the scene with B/X/W talking about love poems and the internet was anti-Tara, anti-memory, anti-past, anti-lesbian, anti-ANYTHING. If anything, it WAS a good nod to Willow's past affection for Xander, to her Net Girl ways / knowledge, and to the 'net in general. Thanks Russ. Taaaaaaaaaaaasha! Welcome back SSC Sha Sha. |
||
