Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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tasha

Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 3119

(11/19/02 03:05:17)

Tags : None

Let's discuss tonight's episode

WARNING: Expect spoilers in this thread for THIS episode -Season 7 Episode 8!

Last warning -

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I liked it. Not as good as CWDP, but still good stuff. The Spike stuff was cool. I didn't think it would be Spike as Spike carrying out the actions, with the whole Underground Evil thing going on with Will and Dawn last week, figured it had to be the bad.

Dawn - tsk tsk. I can't believe part of her thinks that it might have been Joyce telling the truth. Did she miss the part where Buffy killed herself to save Dawn at the end of Season 5? Silly once green energy blob.

I was a wee bit disappointed that Anya and Xander didn't have any tales to tell about dead people sightings, but nevermind.

Anya cracked me up with her excuse for snooping around Spike's room. Hee.

Edit: Totally forgot to mention the London thang. Looks like a lot of us were right when we said it looks like they're killing off the slayers-in-training. And watchers too it would seem.

So, who are these people? Are they working for the Big Bad? Or is it a separate thing? Did they summon the Big Bad?

Anyone else shouting "Giles! Nooooooooooooooo!" at the end of the ep? I think he was gonna miss tho, the angle of mr axe looked too high to swipe his head off. Poor Giles!

I know some of us here watch Angel too, so highlight to read - [WARNING ANGEL SPOILERS - S4 E7]
Okay, so Cordy mentioned the evil coming along with the words beneath. And things are looking pretty apocalyptic there with the increase in vermin and the rain of fire and whatnot. Sounds to me like we're going to tie in...which is gonna be tricky what with the cross network issues for the main/recurring cast. However, Angel and co met Mr FunnyLookingHornedDemonWithTheGoatLegs - satan? Minion of? But in Sunnydale, we've only had Morphy. No Rain of Fire either. Thoughts anyone?[END ANGEL SPOILERS]

Anyway..that's all for now...gotta look busy in the workplace

++ "Confused, maybe - never scared."
++ "...kittens! Which, by the way, is stupid currency"
++ Minion of Ultimate Drew #98

shortie

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 872

(11/19/02 03:33:31)

Just re: the angel thang - uhm - how do you make it blinvisible? *G* I shall attempt to change fontcolor *nods*

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Highlight:
Although it seems kind of tie-iny, the evil in Buffy seems a lot cooler than molten lava man - a lot smarter and a lot more evil....End

"I don't have guilt about my potentially embarassing pleasures because I'm such an amazing rationalizer. So, my guiltless pleasures: tv shows -- Buffy and Alias and sometimes Angel." - Tanya Donelly

Minion of Ultimate Drew #86

shortlisted - I'm one of those too

Drop19

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 2083

(11/19/02 07:15:21)

Buffy
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As per usual I'll need to rewatch before making any overly windy comments about it, but overall it was pretty good. I'll echo Tasha's good but not as good as CWDP. It's interesting that Spike's messed up consciousness prevented him from remembering siring those people and adds further complexity to the good vs evil vs shades of grey issue already present with him. If I was there he'd probably be staked in a heartbeat but it's curious to see how they let events play out with this.

It was very cool to see the events of last week dealt with almost immediately. If it was a matter of everyone keeping it to themselves and being all angsty-seperatey it would've been awful. Dawn is of course still harboring some suspicions (smart former green energy blob) but she's also not as experienced as the other others in end of the world matters and being open with your friends. I'm still pretty sure that was Joyce last week.

The one scene that was really nicely done in this episode (not that there was only one necessarily) was Buffy tailing Spike in the Promenade. At first when "Buffy" approached him and his victim I was really confused, then like "oh my wow that's evil." First Evil or whatever it is has led to some very cool moments so far.

And for Angely spoilers do the highlight trick:
Speaking of oh my wow, Angel this week was crazy. From the testosterone fest of "let's use every weapon known to man to make this thing fall over" to Cordy's very poor taste in men this episode was all over the place. As far as standing on its own I wouldn't rank it very highly but as part of the greater whole it was pretty excellent.

What really shocked me is what I think I might have heard or misheard. Did Big Nasty really call Angel "William" before flying away or am I just smoking an illegal substance? It was hard to tell with him being all Mr Mumbles and all, but I swear he said "You don't really think you can protect her, do you William?" If so it seems like the Demon is about 100 miles off and trying to attack the wrong vampire with a soul. He might have said "Liam" but I swear it was William.

Two last notes:
-Wesley is the coolest guy in a very Sam Peckinpah kind of way. It's funny to see him evolve from a total dweeb into Max Payne over the past 3 or 4 years.
-SAT Exam analogy: Connor is to Drop as Dawn is to Tasha :lol

shortie

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 872

(11/19/02 07:25:53)

Everyone - this is an answer to drop's Angel spoiler:
Highlight

Drop - that's what I thought was said as well, I turned to tasha and went "huh?". Liam can be a short form of William, but in the case of Angel I'm pretty certain his name is Liam, full stop. It would be so cool if they sneakily manage to tie in...but as I said above, this evil seems a bit...daft, not half as creepy as Morphy. Also - Connor Cordy - yuck yuck yuck yuck ick! That was grosser than Buffy and Spike.
End

"I don't have guilt about my potentially embarassing pleasures because I'm such an amazing rationalizer. So, my guiltless pleasures: tv shows -- Buffy and Alias and sometimes Angel." - Tanya Donelly

Minion of Ultimate Drew #86

shortlisted - I'm one of those too

TheDoby

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1974

(11/19/02 07:43:59)

oh whee! me liked. now the games begin.

just watched it once too.....so im all with the woo and hoo. i dito and thirto the not better than last week ep. well.....but that one was a masterpiece in itself. but this furthered the plot, concernin evil kneevil dude. i wondered bout spoik the whole time....and yeah me, it wasnt all him! i knew it!

dawn being torn between what to belief and what not is kinda cool. i wonder how that might affect her and buffys relationship. yes, smart former green energy blop. also she lied.....she didnt tell willow what it/joyce really said. well...willow wasnt mega down with the spilling either, but she told em the "important" manipulation parts. big shifty is really a mysterious one. like spoik can see him, buffy not, plaiyn the mighty mindgames with everyone. me likes. good big bad evil skanky thingie.
a cool ep, which was thrillin, and once again well done. when is monday again ? i hope giles head stays where it was, well....on his shoulders. but i dont think we really have to worry that hell depart.

oh and los angelos...(highlight)ok.....im a european and i already saw many nasty..ehem....things on tv and movies..but connor/cordie made me go all baaaarf. that was so yuk ew eeeek eeeep. everytime i start likin connor, one sec later i wanna kill him again. tsts. and angel as the wittness...fun ahead anyone ? and i dito/thrito that i like buffys big bad more, but yes, it looks kinda like both shows got a similiar thing goin. and wes payne rawks! he is coolness personified. go wes!

i was concerned bout fred and ghunn since the prf slayage, and now it looks like the 2 will have to talk soon. damn ME! yew cant destroy my fav angel shippy ship!!!!

he he he. and the "william" thing. suspicious ? someone should hand him a map. "no, look..william is here..in sunnydale. while Liam, the guy with the hair...is rite here, yew know ugly lava dude ?"

. done

Drop19

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 2083

(11/19/02 07:45:31)

Continuing super sneaky discussion:
I got the impression that this guy was a bit more of a tool than an actual manifestation of everything evil we're going to see this year. As cool as he looks visually I hope he gets more with the dialogue if he is the absolute big bad for that show.

Whoever decided on the Connor/Cordie thing deserves a big kick in the hindquarters. I guess it's a bit of the Buffy/Spike "been through extreme trauma and turn to the person who I probably shouldn't" but it just seems wrong. Even though Connor is of age technically he is still emotionally very immature. Blargh, I see where they are heading with the story (barring swerves) but just blargh...did we really need to see that much of it?

Dark Wyldchilde

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1722

(11/19/02 10:30:58)

Hush Puppy

I will make a statement here and now.

Giles won't die.
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Potential Spoiler
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That or he will be holding a bucket with his head in it when he comes to Sunnydale with the proto-slayer who's supposed to be gay and a potential love interest for Willow.

After their repeated denials about Tara I tend to believe most all spoilers.

shortie

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 872

(11/19/02 10:33:07)

DW - I hope that's not a proper spoiler, because if it is, I am personally gonna put your head in a bucket

Edited to add - can you put some spoiler space under it as well please? I think we usually don't mention spoilers in episode discussions at all here - didn't we use to have a spoiler thread? Or am I confused as always?

"I don't have guilt about my potentially embarassing pleasures because I'm such an amazing rationalizer. So, my guiltless pleasures: tv shows -- Buffy and Alias and sometimes Angel." - Tanya Donelly

Minion of Ultimate Drew #86

shortlisted - I'm one of those too

TheDoby

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1974

(11/19/02 10:45:04)

uhm......it is. *smack smack* no spoilin the shorties and tashas! they might start cryin!

Previously.....on Doby the Futon Slacker...

Nothing happened, except for slackage on the futon...

Drop19

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 2083

(11/19/02 12:19:28)

Ack! Advance spoilers! *runs away like his name is Lola*

Feylamia

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 3763

(11/19/02 14:53:51)

Wow, I thought this one was bloody brilliant! Can't wait for the next ep!!!

Go Spike! I can't wait until Buffy finally tells him...

"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards those whom we personally dislike." (Oscar Wilde)

Are you the guys on the beach who hate everything?
Uh uh uh
Is this some sort of hip music that I don't understand!?

Get Your Own Neopet

NeitherHereNorThere

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 485

(11/19/02 17:13:23)

This week's episode was pretty good, though I'd have to say my least favorite of the season. I just didn't think it was especially interesting, but I loved Anya's explaination about being in Spike's room.

And I don't know how to do the highlighty thing, so I warn you now: Angel spoilers down below.

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At charisma-carpenter.com it said that Charisma's expecting a baby and so they're working that into the storyline. I don't know if it's true or not, but that's the only reason I could see them putting Connor and Cordelia together.

Jane :anya

TL983

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1264

(11/19/02 19:07:08)

SPOILERS

This wasn't one of my favorite episodes of season 7. I actually didn't really get into there were about 10 minutes left.

Spike not remembering killing those girls. I was like What did everyone lose their memory! It was sad though when he realized what he did.

Dawn didn't mention the fact that Joyce told her that when the time comes Buffy won't be on her side. Interesting.

Giles and the ending of the episode. Yikes with the Axe and his head being kind of close. Cliffhanger much? lol

off to rewatch,
~*~Tamara~*~

*Real love stories never have an ending*

xellos12385

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 122

(11/19/02 22:18:56)

SPOILERS

I liked this episode. I liked how they solved the Spike thing before the episode was done, with everybody finding out what was going on with him. But GRRR Joss Whedon, I GRR at you for leaving with such a major cliffhanger ending! (Even though I can probably assume Giles isn't going to be decapitated, still such a cliffhanger)

Dark Wyldchilde

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1722

(11/19/02 22:26:26)

Hush Puppy

Quick points.

*I* would be willing to kill if it would get a metal night at the Bronze. Some nice techno/industrial, something involving a guitar that plugs in and a singer whos more then so very, very depressed.

The time/date stamp WAS unique it seems.

The final point would be that I hope Xander hires whoever does the contracting for the Summers household. I mean damages are getting fixed after the first commerical break. That's some fine work.

My big thing with the Spike issue is that it took the full episode to figure it out. I mean heck we were suggesting some for of MPD from waht we saw LAST ep. I'm not saying they had to rush to a conclusion, but someone could have said. "Well maybe..." Followed soon by "Could be, now we have to make sure."

When you consider that something has been messing with all of them it was painfully clueless of them not to consider something pulling strings and pushing buttons.

gentleman spike

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 2317

(11/19/02 23:40:21)

Bridge to Tarabithia

The episode title: Sleeper.

What I wanted to do while watching this episode: Sleep.

Why?

It was boring. That's my opinion. All talk. Talk talk talk.

I guess they all can't be written by Drew Goddard......

Little Willow

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 17692

(11/20/02 00:06:09)

Miss Kitty Fantastico

The episode was interesting. I would say more, but I am extremely exhausted and know I have to go to sleep. If I post anything more than this, detail anything, I know I would stay up another 2 hours typing and analyzing... *grin*

Little Willow

Dark Wyldchilde

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1722

(11/20/02 00:35:54)

Hush Puppy

LW!?! I think you need to stay home from work one day and go over all the eps you've not done yet. I miss your ideas.

MsKittyFantastico

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1009

(11/20/02 07:33:27)

Hmmmm, I don't know I guess I was in the mood for a slower paced episode. I liked the song being attached to Spike's slow mental shift. And the offkilter editing helped support it for me.
Of course Emma/Anya made the episode for me, and no it wasn't really her scene with Spike. Moreso the short Xander and Anya scene. It's really the small things that get me anymore.
Dawn, I so want to believe with you about Joyce kiddo. I loves my Joyce. I loves my Kristine... I want it to be true.

As for the spoiler... wah... wah... I'm upset! Virgin spoilerness is gone!

I might have more thoughts later... Possibly not,

Bren

ambermintgum(d)

Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 17

(11/20/02 08:26:05)

First of all, I just have to say, I think I'm in love with James Marsters. And if I'm alone in this, then so be it, but hey, more James for me! LOL

He just gets to me. The fact that he always makes me be right there with Spike no matter what he's doing, whether he's being good or bad, is a testament to his gift.

And what that has to do with the episode mostly lies in the fact that without him, I probably would not have loved it as much as I did.

But when he opened his shirt and waited for Buffy to stake him, I'll be sappy here, yeah, it got to me.

I don't know who or what this season baddie is, but so far, so great. The Scooby manipulation is fascinating to watch. I love that the attack doesn't come from outside, but from within. How can you fight something that begins with you and ends somewhere you probably don't want to go? I can't wait to see where it all leads. And personally, I really hope it ties in to the things happening on Angel. That would rock!

So as to not ramble on much further here, I'm just going to point by point some random stuff and call it day.

- The was the first time I actually wanted Buffy and Spike together. Mostly thought it was a bad idea, but this ep made me think it could work.

- Drove me nuts seeing ASH's name in the opening credits and then having to wait to the very end to see him. More Giles! More Giles!

- That whole alley scene was cool. I was definitely with the OMG when Buffy showed up and told Spike to kill that girl. I knew it wasn't her, but Spike thinking it was rocked.

- I like how you were never quite sure if Dawn believed her mother, and the fact that she didn't tell everyone the whole truth about what Joyce said made me think "Hmmm, that'll leave a mark."

- I know Buffy needs to baby-sit Spike, but I hope he doesn't move out of Xander's. There's so much untapped hilarity there.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

Christal

MsKittyFantastico

Re: Episode Discussion: Sleeper

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Posts: 1009

(11/20/02 09:00:37)

Okay obviously I really should be doing something productive right now, but alas I just want to play on my posting boards.

Okay so... I forgot to mention on of my favorite lines. It was Spike complmenting Anya's hair. I'm like me too! haha I know it's really superfical, but love the hair.

Christal - I was with you in the agony over seeing Tony's name and knowing it was going to end up a throw-away at the end, but what an impact.

I'm really liking MT anymore, and I am loving the way she is carrying Dawn. So much more adult. She's got the classic Summers stoic coming up on her. Sigh, I don't want it to not be Joyce... make it be Joyce!

I'm liking the fact that when Buffy actually was ready to listen to Spike she was wearing a white shirt. Really nice subtle clothing effects that are being used. And the discovery of the cigarettes. I was like, oh man... cigarettes = bad.

Okay, really I'll back away now...

Bren

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